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1850 Horn vs. Martin WSX

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Jogge View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jogge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1850 Horn vs. Martin WSX
    Posted: 07 September 2004 at 3:04pm
I was wondering how the 1850 horn would perform compared to the WSX cab from Martin Audio.  Anybody tried this out?

The 1850 has it's -2db at 50Hz.
The WSX has a -3db around 38Hz.

Seems to me that the WSX will play lower then 1850 Horn or am I wrong?
What is the -3db of the 1850 when loaded with the V18-1000 driver?

Any ideas ?
Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2004 at 3:26pm

It goes a little deeper with the Void driver.

Of course the WSX is going deeper as the 1850 when measured in single configurations. The WSX is way bigger.....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loophole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2004 at 3:31pm
remember to consider the effects of large stacks
i havent checked the specifications of the wsx, but it is possible it wont go much lower when in big stacks because of a driver with a high fs. 1850 wont play below 50 on its own, but i can tell you for certain the stack of 12 at the carnival was getting deeper than this, at a guess, f3 at about 38-40hz.
but of course this is all speculation cos the wsx might go much lower for all i know
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timber_MG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2004 at 5:40pm
To my knowledge extension in large stacks is a function of horn length (i.e. 16 x HD15 won't get you to 40Hz, well not without eq anyways). IIRC the lower extention(and what else not) of the looney bin was due to a design change by Rog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2004 at 5:48pm

Of course you need the horn length to get low in stacks. Normally a horn for PA use is designed with the full length to get to a certain frequency, let's say 40Hz, but not the mouth area for that frequency. So stacking will raise the mouth are proportional to the number of boxes (logical, isn't it?) and the virtual length of the horn will also raise a bit (really just a bit) giving you now the full freq range the horn length can achieve.....

I guess the design changes in the looney bin are mainly the sealed chamber and the compression chamber volumes. Much more can't be done without dramatically changing the size of the cab....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timber_MG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2004 at 7:40am
Might be that he used the space more efficiently in the new design and optimized the geometry to work with the VOID driver.

A lower flare rate will automatically result in a smaller mouth if one keeps the horn's length constant, but at cutoff the horn acts like a resonant pipe and thus only a truly monsterous stack will get you any lower. I try and explain this to myself with a virtual boundary between multiple horns which serves to extend the horn beyond it's physical mouth, so the horns in the inside of the stack would go a litle lower than those at the outside even?

McBean's multiple units feature seems to model this to some extent, but then one is talking early 80-esque rock concert a la Deep Purple type horn stack (wall of sound)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2004 at 6:12pm

Hi,

Looney bin has diffrent rear chamber, front chamber and throat size.

As we all know front chamber size can affect fo cutoff point, but at the exspense of the slope.

Rog.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loophole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2004 at 3:14am
Originally posted by Timber_MG Timber_MG wrote:

Might be that he used the space more efficiently in the new design and optimized the geometry to work with the VOID driver.

A lower flare rate will automatically result in a smaller mouth if one keeps the horn's length constant


so as the looney bin has a bigger mouth circuference, the flare rate is greater - which i guess would ever so slightly decrease the throw but help give the warmer sound compared to 1850 horns? or is just the driver itself responsible for that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loophole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2004 at 3:17am
oops sorry, thought rog said mouth size not throat size... obviously my last post is a bit pointless now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beelzedub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2004 at 1:04pm

At a night that we (Dirt Sound System) did a while ago with our old system we hired 4 WSX for the night. We had them in a stack together and they were good, don't get me wrong, but in comparison to a stack of 4 1850's they don't really register. Don't really know any of the response information or build differences, but on sound alone the 1850 is outright winner. Listening at our new system (8 looney bins and 4 Status 3), it speaks volumes (i missed it at carnival, gutted). Obviously though, we have Looney bins which are slightly different, but you get the idea.

Ben

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chilli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 11:39pm
i think your being  a little biased by saying that there much of a difference between 1850's and wsx's,  i use 4 x wsx regularly and they certainly shift some air, you have loony bins, which you've paid for, and are used to hearing, as you said you hired 4 wsx,preferred the loony bins. i've heard 1850's out a few times, they're great too, but i prefer the wsx, horses for courses i suppose, i'd be interested to check out the wsx with the void v-18 in it, then  i think you could make a better comparison as to the relative merits of each horn. the wsx's are designed with a 600w driver in em, the only thing i dont like about the wsx's is that i havent got the space to store another 4 or them...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beelzedub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2004 at 9:54am

biased or not, I'd like to hear them with a different driver too. I think they would be great. It is true, we paid for looney bins, but at the price of wsx's I'm glad we did. Not really used to hearing the bins as we don't get opportunites to fully turn it up, (every time we do they just get better) and as you often use wsx's I'm sure you are used to them. Horses for courses indeed. As long as air is being pushed, its all fine.

Thanks

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